Merging Giants: Analyzing Impacts and Controversies | Did Jay Monahan Do Enough?

What happens when the PGA Tour and LIV become one? Join us in this heated episode of the Pure Golf Podcast, where Jordan, Aron, David, and Zach passionately debate the winners, losers, and future implications of this game-changing merger. As we navigate this monumental announcement, we'll examine the impact on players, the credibility of PGA Tour leadership, and the potential consequences for the sport of golf.

We'll dive into the details of the lucrative contracts and bonuses with names like Rory McIlroy and discuss how Phil Mickelson may have outsmarted everyone with his strategic foresight. As we dissect Rory's handling of the situation, we'll also touch on the controversial topic of doing business with countries with questionable human rights records. Can the PGA and LIV Tour merger navigate these ethical complexities without tarnishing the game's reputation?

Lastly, we'll analyze the potential future of golf events in the wake of the merger and how it could impact the sport's accessibility and fan engagement. Tune in for an in-depth exploration of the PGA and LIV Tour merger, and join the conversation as we attempt to predict the future of golf.

Chapters

• 8:58 PGA Tour and PIF Merger
• 17:11 PGA Tour Leadership and Player Reactions
• 31:34 PGA and LIV Merger Discussion
• 45:44 Saudi Arabia's Impact

Transcript

Jordan: 0:00

Coming up on this podcast. We have Arianne, we have David, we have Zach and we have me, jordan, and we are going to discuss Live PGA and DP World Tour merger. Over to the announcements. Hey everyone, welcome to the announcements section of the podcast and thank you for joining us. This week we have already released a podcast of recapping the Memorial tournament that Victor Howlin won. It's a great recap. I highly suggest tuning into that one. Then Zach on the YouTube channel released a nine-hole video that went into a playoff. It's the first time that has ever happened. Very entertaining video over there. It is the best I've ever seen Zach putt on camera. So very cool video.

Jordan: 0:49

This episode today was actually supposed to be a putter episode New slash. It changed drastically when the PGA and Live and DP World Tour announced what all is happening there, so we canceled the putter podcast and put this one in instead. Finally, over the weekend, zach is going to be releasing an update on his road to break 80. There may have been a little bit of a bump in the road. I will preview it, no more than that, but sometimes bumps in the road happen on your journey to break 80. That'll do it for the announcements.

Jordan: 1:21

Thanks, welcome to the Pure Golf Podcast. My name is Jordan And in just a couple minutes I will be joined by David, zach and Ariane as we discuss our breakdown of the PGA Live Tour and DP World Tour merger. This one is going to be a little bit edited on some parts because, as we were meeting, some different news came out that the Live Tour is not planning on going anywhere from an announcement that Greg Norman finally made, so a little bit misconstrued there. As we just continue to wait for details to emerge, i think this is the most fired up I got on a podcast, i think it's. If you've never heard me get loud before, i definitely get loud in this podcast because I'm just, i rate, at one of the takes that is being made. So look forward to that. If you know me at all, it doesn't happen very often, but it is a really great podcast.

Jordan: 2:52

Something that I will go ahead and say separately before we join the rest of these guys is I people want to hear my take. I've gotten that text and phone call many times in these past 36 hours of would really love to hear your thoughts. There's a. This is probably the biggest sports announcement in my entire life because of it is so layered and there's just so much depth to what just happened. I think this is just a massive announcement on so many levels.

Jordan: 3:26

I think it's going to dictate a lot of the future in sports, for lack of a better term, buying your way into the table, and I don't think Jay Monahan has done a great job navigating this terrain. But it's also very easy for me to say, as I sit here giving my take from an office chair while he's got plenty more information in front of him Do I think this is best for the best? Do I think this is the best for the game of golf in the future? I actually do. I think, going forward, this is going to be great for the game of golf, but I don't like how we got here. I really, really don't. I think that kind of gets across to this podcast ahead. I don't like how we got here At all.

Jordan: 4:18

I think it's created a lot of tears in the fabric of golf. I think it's divided a tour from its commissioner now And I actually think in a way, it's actually divided America in some ways because of some of the comments that Jay Monahan made. He made it very political, didn't need to get political? In hindsight probably not, and he probably regrets what he said. He claims he went off the information that was given to him at the time. So so are we right now And we haven't been given a lot of information.

Jordan: 4:53

So there's a lot more to drop. I know for a fact more is about to drop, but I don't know when it will be dropped. So it's kind of like waiting for a shoot of fall that you know is going to fall but you don't know exactly when. Curious how the media is going to take some of this, how they're going to twist it and what stance will be taken. Who's going to be the good guy? Who's going to be the bad guy?

Jordan: 5:19

It's a very unsettled terrain that we enter, moving forward, for all that's at stake here Golf, in the words of Rory, golf now does. If the Saudis did want to invest in the game of golf and it looks like they did That's great, and now it looks like maybe we can allocate those funds to direct the game of golf in a very bright way, and that is very encouraging. Again, i don't like how we got here, but those are my initial takes. I think more of my takes come through in the podcast. Let's see what happens next. There's just so much more to happen, so I will kick it over to the four of us and we will kind of go from there. But enjoy the podcast. It is a very dramatic one, thanks.

Zach: 6:13

Let's start out. You know what everybody? Let's start out with a 10 words or less to begin this podcast, because I've gotten a lot of DMs from people asking when are you guys going to talk about this? I know Jordan has. We've been in the office and people have been asking us as well. Jordan, i'm going to let you start. Give me 10 words of less for your first initial reaction with the PGA live news.

Jordan: 6:39

Oh man, Otter shock. I'm going to stick it two words. Otter shock, Farah David.

David: 6:49

Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. Sucks to be Greg Norman.

Zach: 6:54

That's good, arihan.

Aryon: 6:57

This was inevitably going to happen, but faster than I thought.

Zach: 7:02

My 10 words or less is. I agree with Arihan for sure, that's my 10 words or less. Okay, so let's kind of give a brief before we jump into the discussions. Who wants to give a brief summary of what actually ended up happening, like the final? we're recording this a full day after the news dropped. Who feels comfortable enough to give a brief summary of what just happened?

Aryon: 7:30

Arihan, yeah, basically, the PGA tour, the DP World Tour and live are unified by, we'll call it, a parent company that is going to be run by Jay Monahan or led by Jay Monahan.

David: 7:52

He'll be the CEO.

Aryon: 7:53

He'll be the CEO And this company will be given funding. It's not the actual public investment fund?

David: 8:04

No, So basically the public investment fund will be the investor in this new organization that's yet to be named or really told much about. Jay Monahan is going to be the CEO. The chairman of the board will be the gentleman that runs the PIF and that currently is the main financier of the live tour, But supposedly the PGA tour ie, Jay Monahan and the PGA tour will have complete control in terms of decision making and where the funding goes Correct.

Aryon: 8:39

And, as of right now, live still exists as its own entity, although I'm sure we'll get into this more, but most people don't think that's going to last very long.

Zach: 8:52

Interesting. Okay, fair enough, arihan, i'm going to start just initial reaction. Who is the biggest winner in this whole news drop?

Aryon: 9:03

The biggest winners, in my opinion, are the players who received the large sums of money and signed contracts with live And, as it stands right now, will be, in some way, shape or form, be allowed to play on the PGA tour, and really it appears as though they haven't lost much but have gained a lot. As it stands right now, as it stands right now.

Zach: 9:34

Yeah, david, give me the losers of this whole debacle.

David: 9:39

Well, outside of Greg Norman, who looks like he's about to get shafted in this whole deal, because right now, the big prevailing rumor because we don't have a lot of concrete information is that he's pretty much going to be gone And the fact that he was given information five minutes beforehand that this was happening And yet he is supposedly running the live tour Chairman. Yeah, you know, i mean that's kind of a problem for him, but I don't know. I actually would argue that the biggest loser right now, or people that are certainly in the heart in a very strange position, are really the players on the live tour. So I mean, in my opinion, i think that those guys at this point they're going to have to buy their way back into the tour because there's going to be a major financial, i think, penalty for them to actually get back on the PGA tour. The question is, how much cash have they really gotten from those contracts? What did they really sign?

Aryon: 10:40

So David, you think the biggest losers are the people who I think are the biggest winners? Yeah, I was about to say Pretty close, man.

David: 10:48

I think that there's going to be a lot coming out about that. I mean because they're not just automatically back on the tour, right, and it's still this TBD, you know, to be determined as so far as what they actually have to do to earn the tour cards back. So I mean, in a sense, let me pivot The real losers are the guys that are ranked, like you know, that are on the cut of losing their. they're on the verge of losing their tour card Because now you get a wave of players that are going to come in and beat them, you know, in terms of performance and be able to get those spots back, but also they're kind of going to be given it in a sense. but they're also going to the live.

David: 11:26

players are in limbo because the PGA is going to wrap up the season. Liv's going to wrap up the season. PGA is already talking about scheduling for next year. That's supposed to come out in a couple of weeks and they don't really want to. I heard Jay Monahan today talk about it. doesn't really want to mess with. that Was the insinuation he made. He's hoping that set.

David: 11:43

That doesn't really leave a lot of room, you know, or confidence in what Liv's going to do outside of this calendar year. I mean, there's obviously money involved, there's tournaments that have been scheduled, but I think those players are in limbo And, as far as I can tell right now, i just think that's a huge question mark. So I think the biggest loser is kind of around those players that are on Liv, because there's so many implications in terms of how they get back on tour when and if that happens. Obviously it does sound like it's going to happen. There's going to be a mechanism to do that. But the thing that what I've been trying to read through all the little bit of talk that's been out there about it with like Jay Monahan and, is that there's going to be a process. It doesn't sound like it's going to be. It's going to be great for those guys.

Aryon: 12:34

Well, see, here's the thing. you know, and I feel bad for David because I think he's going to get the wrath of my my counters today, when it really should be Parker who shout out to Parker, who's training for the US, and I had no idea what was going on with him. So good job by you, parker, but you really should be here on this podcast listening to me talk about how I've been saying this for the last six months And unfortunately, david's going to have to take on that burden. The Liv players, if they have to buy their way back onto the tour, or if they, whatever are going to be, are in the exact same situation then that they would be in if this merger never happened. right, they weren't getting back on the tour before, and if it's difficult for them to get back on the tour, then they wouldn't be back on the tour after this.

Aryon: 13:27

However, there's no way.

Aryon: 13:29

there's no way the BGA tour does this without the expectation that they're trying to get those players back and they're trying to do it in a way that's mutually beneficial for them as well.

Aryon: 13:41

So I don't see, i think people like Brooks Kepka, dustin Johnson, maybe not some of the guys on the later end of their career, but some of these guys who are still somewhat in their prime are going to benefit from this, because that's to me, that's the only reason that the PGA tour would do this is to, you know, unify the game and make it to where it's competitive again. I actually think the guys who are struggling to get their cards could potentially win from this in some way, because now there are more, there's more positions available with all the tours combined, where I think there's going to be more opportunities for players to play in general. I don't know how they're going to build this up, but now they've got three different tours altogether a lot more spots. I don't know, i could be wrong about that, but I can tell you I don't think the biggest losers are the guys who took those major paychecks.

David: 14:43

I mean that's. The only question is going to be, how much of that are they going to get a keep? because I guarantee you there's going to be a huge penalty. I mean punishment almost, because I mean Jay Monahan walks back a lot of what he said the last. What year? two years, just by merging with, effectively, the Saudis, the PIF. The one thing he's been pretty consistent on is the players that left.

Aryon: 15:12

Correct, but I don't think they're going to have to forfeit their whole paycheck, so they're still going to have more money than, say, someone like Will Zalatoris, who rumored to have given up $130 million, or you know. I wouldn't say Tiger Woods is a loser in any of this, but some of these other players who were given big contracts that didn't take it. I, jay Monahan, said that their loyalty will be rewarded, but what does that really mean?

David: 15:35

Are they going to? you know that's an unknown right now. Yeah, i mean, they definitely have some pain involved. I mean and that came out of that players only meet well, not entirely players only, but the players with Jay Monahan, and sounded like he pretty much ripped into him or exactly that.

Aryon: 15:51

Yeah, for sure. I mean they were calling for his resignation. But I also think winners in this are going to be the fans in the end, because I think now we're going to get tournaments again with all the players together. But yeah, i think I hope they find a way to reward the loyalty in a way that makes sense.

Zach: 16:14

So, jordan, let's get you into this conversation. Give me your thoughts on Jay Monahan and give me your thoughts on Greg Norman. Is Jay Monahan? is he with what he said? let's kind of turn this into the 9-11 situation with what he said about those families. And then all of a sudden he the PGA tour takes the money. What are your thoughts?

Jordan: 16:42

on all of that. First off, i don't know why that ever happened in the first place. I mean, this is hindsight 2020. Now right, like he said, it at the time made a lot of sense because you're trying to give live any negative press you can because you're the PGA. But also I'll give you the big picture is I'm waiting for more information to come out, because we're hypothesizing a lot right now.

Jordan: 17:11

What does it mean when Jay Monahan says the players will be rewarded? Because that's a very loose end right now And it's very like we have a little bit of insight now this year. But like, what does that mean? Nobody knows what that means. And is it him? it is a guy who has zero credibility right now saying that he's going to fight endlessly for his players. But it's a guy who his players just yesterday were calling for his own resignations for. So the credibility there is kind of out the window of you say that. But what do you mean by that? And how harsh is that penalty going to be for rejoining the PGA? Really curious to know that. But also, how are you going to reward your own players? Are you going to give Rory nine figures for staying loyal because he could have gone elsewhere. We don't have a reported number or that he ever got a firm contract. But let's all face it, he could have gotten nine figures right, no doubt about it, easily 100%.

Jordan: 18:11

The Greg Norman thing is, zach. I remember walking into Pure Goth about a month ago and being like dude there's rumors of Greg Norman being out the door. I told you that And it's very weird that those rumors were already floating out in the atmosphere before any of this was kind of out there, and so I was kind of like at the time you just kind of think nothing of it, because at some point Greg Norman was always going to go out the window. From what I've heard, that was always the case is he was there to get it off the ground and then he was going to go away.

Zach: 18:47

Yeah, we were talking about people and them being in the know. Was Phil Mickelson in the know this entire time? I know you and I, you and I, jordan we talked about this in the office about, like he mentioned something at the PGA championship About that, didn't he? What exactly did he say again?

Jordan: 19:06

I feel like I don't know exactly because all of this is now running together that Phil Mickelson, at the end of the day, is looking like a genius through all this. He said that the PGA was going to do. it was best for the PGA at the end of the day. And now he's correct. And so we all crucified Phil Mickelson. a year ago I mean, the book came out he said the Saudis are scary MFers to deal with or to get in business with. And now he signs his nine figure bonus and, like, ends up on top and is having while every other golfer is having a catastrophe on Twitter, phil is ending tweets with smiley faces, so comes out looking looking pretty great in all this.

Zach: 19:49

Yeah, i agree with that, David. Let's kind of jump over to Rory real quick. Okay, it feels like to me he just had his press conference this morning. Okay, it feels like he is kind of this person that got left out to dry for the PGA tour And he kind of said that in his press conference. He felt like he was the scapegoat.

David: 20:11

And I mean the words he used literally were sacrificial lamb, sacrificial lamb.

Jordan: 20:16

That's right.

Zach: 20:18

And so what are your thoughts for him? Do you think? think that Rory is one of the bigger losers in this whole situation?

David: 20:27

No, i mean, the one thing Rory has done throughout this has been kind of exemplify exactly what the PGA like, the the ideal image of a leader on the PGA tour is in terms of a player and what you want. He has not stooped down to any level, you know, to really go after live. He's spoken his mind, he's spoken it very clearly And he said what he he does not like. I thought he had his interview today, was incredibly honest and was about, i mean, as raw as I think we're going to get from Rory McElroy in an interview, because the guy's just, you know, he's class man, He is the utmost professional. I don't think he's a loser. I mean in some sense, yeah, i mean it hurts for him And I mean he kept talking throughout his interview about being, you know, as an individual, right versus setting that aside and looking at it from the lens of the PGA tour, you know, as an entity, from Jay Monahan's perspective, and he's like I understand that, but then as a, you know, an individual.

David: 21:31

He was talking about how he goes. There's needs to be some conversations because he was, he was kind of hung out to dry. He definitely was a sacrificial lamb in some regards, based on how the deal went down. I think that's the only way I was ever going to play out. You know, within the specific context of how this actually happened, but I don't know yet if I would really classify him a loser. Right now he's more of a sympathetic. Sympathetic character in all of this because he's fighting for what he feels is right But I think most of us felt was right, at least within the context of this argument between Liv PGA, the Saudis and everything else you know and and he did it the right way. So it definitely sucks for him. I mean, i think it's. There's a lot of interesting things that came out of that interview.

Zach: 22:20

Yeah, absolutely Arianne. what are your thoughts on Roy?

Aryon: 22:24

Yeah. So I agree with everything David just said. I think he handled it with the utmost class And I actually think he is gonna come out of this a winner because he's gonna be looked upon by his colleagues as a leader moving forward because of how he handled everything. When he would speak negatively about a situation, he did it in a way I don't wanna say without burning bridges. I mean he was brutally honest, but he's, i think, in the longterm, when all of this comes together, he's gonna be a pivotal part of it moving forward And I think he'll end up winning.

Aryon: 23:05

I looked up Rory's net worth today just for the heck of it, and there were some reports that he's worth in the hundreds of millions of dollars, like I think I saw one that was like $200 plus million that he's worth.

Aryon: 23:15

So I don't think an offer from Liv is gonna change his life right.

Aryon: 23:21

So I don't see him missing out like some of these other players potentially did. But he wants to his whole thing and what's gonna make his career is his legacy. And now he's gonna be in a position where I think, even though he stated before that, like a leadership role is not what he wants right now, he will be looked at as a person who led in a situation, in one of the most troubling situations of golf, and now he's gonna be put back in a situation where he's gonna be playing with the best players in the world without any debate, because everyone's back together And if he can continue to work on his game as an individual and win, there will not be any. There won't be any asterisk on his resume about the strength of field or just in general who he is competing against. He said from the beginning he's wanted to compete with the best in the world And now, because of this, he's gonna be able to do that And ultimately, like I said, if he's able to win again in the future, this happening has enhanced that.

Zach: 24:33

Why don't you just go ahead, arianne, with your thoughts on Jay Monahan? Let's go back to him, because I've got nothing else on Rory right now. Let's talk about Jay Monahan, what you got.

Aryon: 24:43

Okay, jay Monahan we can all agree handled this situation. He did not handle this situation the best way, and I'm talking about going back a couple of years, right, not just in the recent time, but even going back a couple of years. However and I can understand I don't particularly love him. I don't have a lot of great opinions on him And I can understand why a lot of people don't. However, if for somebody who cannot see why he did what he did, if you look at this from a business perspective, there were very limited options for what he could have done, and I think he I don't see a lot of people, unfortunately handling this a lot better than he did, and what I mean by that.

Aryon: 25:30

If you look at any business, right, when a competitor comes into the market, you're competing against them. You're gonna be speaking negatively about that. But what happens when a competitor becomes too big? You buy them out And then you, in a different way than how this is playing out, you merge with that competitor that you were talking trash about for Lord knows how long, and this is in every type of business And then, all of a sudden, now that competitor is part of your product And now you have to speak highly or speak positively about the situation from that point forward, when you know, two months ago So with Jay Monahan it's like of course he was trying to squish live before it got to be too big said everything he said to try to prevent players Now, i don't think he handled that part as well as he should have, but he tried to do everything he could have to prevent live from being a problem And that didn't work.

Aryon: 26:26

They were too big of a beast. They had too much funding. They weren't going away And for his own survival and his own company's survival, this was the only logical step because they were. Eventually it was inevitable. The PGA product was weak because of it. I've said that on several podcasts And that's why I knew this was inevitable. I just can't believe it happened so quickly. But I think Brooks Kepka winning the PGA championship, sped the process along because that was a. I thought that was a pretty big blow.

Jordan: 26:59

Yeah, i. Maybe it did, Maybe it didn't. I don't know that. We're going to know that answer for a little bit, because they had been talks for apparently seven weeks is what the rumor is out there. I don't know that. Jay Monaghan looks great right now. I know there's plenty coming out. There's going to be more to come. We all know that. But I don't think you are ever going to gain the trust of your players back. Like you can say it's good for business and everything like that And like that's cool. But at the end of the day, you're never going to gain your players trust back because they all found out on Twitter And so like.

Jordan: 27:42

While this would never happen, i think something that could have happened was, if he felt that his back was up against the wall, he could have like I know he would never do this This is me just like completely speculating here. He could have left his position and brought somebody else in to make the merger and gone out of his position as a hero. So in a way, he did take the money. Like you can say whatever you want. You can say it's good for business. At the end of the day, he's making more money than he would have ever made in the history of his lifetime, but he could have gone out a hero.

David: 28:16

Dude, i think we can hold multiple thoughts on our head simultaneously. Sure, absolutely, absolutely. Back to the matters. Yeah, he's the CEO of a huge organization that's going to get billions of dollars invested into it. He's going to get paid to do that And he basically, throughout this deal, negotiated it to where he's in control. Now, the benefit of that is that, because he's in control, the PGA is in control, his interests align with the PGA In terms of running a business as a key executive or a CEO the key leadership position.

David: 28:48

If you're having to massively change the direction of the business if there is a business reason for it you're going to leave a lot of people in the dark. The thing you have to have built up at that point is enough trust and enough results that you are able to make the right decisions for the company, regardless of what everybody else thinks, because there's going to be a thousand opinions and it's never going to be good for absolutely everyone. So I think it turns out how he did it. I think that's the only way to do it in that situation. I think that he's absolutely going to be vilified. In a sense, he's become the Roger Goodell of the PGA. I mean, everyone hates Goodell, but I want, and everyone he's so terribly sucks at him Like.

David: 29:34

But yeah, he makes the owners billions of dollars, he makes the players, at this point, hundreds of millions of dollars. The sponsors aren't complaining. The guy does his job. The question right now is going to be is Jay Monaghan doing that good of a job for the tour, for the players, for the sponsors? And that's only going to bear itself out over the next few months, few years, so far, though, i mean. I think it's very interesting, though, who has been endorsing him via statements the last 24 hours, and one was Jack Nicholas, which I find fascinating.

Jordan: 30:17

Zach, I'm going to have a question for you in just a sec, but I also want to pitch one other thing here before I, because I know I've received text from Zach about Jay Monaghan. I really want his feedback here. But you can also be what, if we're going to compare organizations here. What the players on the PGA tour were pitched was that it was a player run organization when they didn't go over to live which is exactly what the NBA does with Adam Silver And overnight it became into a Roger Goodell NFL thing. When your own players are finding out about this on Twitter, it is not a player run organization. It was made in the dark. So what I'm saying is I don't there's so many things happening here, but don't pitch that. It's a player run organization. And then you are a united front against live and then handshake agreement without telling anyone, even like when Tiger and no.

David: 31:09

But the interesting thing about it is, though, it's like it's not any kind of agreement with, like it's not a merger with live, it's not an actual you know it's. It's that they basically came in, screwed live And took basically their their sole investor, their key investor in the PIF and brought all those funds over in the attempt to be able to control it. And the one key that stuck with me the most out of Rory's interview and that maybe, in my head, makes me think that at least what Jay Monahan is saying is the truth. There's a lot of information he's not telling us, so there could be a lie, of omission, but what he has been telling us was effectively verified by Rory McElroy during that interview, talking about how they want to be. Pga wants to be in control of the future of golf, and if they have the key people that are going to invest billions of dollars, regardless of who they're investing with, they might as well be in control.

Jordan: 32:11

But they were in control and they didn't evolve. That's where, no, you can shake your head over there. You were in control, no, they were not in control. They were not in control, they had to learn because you had the only, you had the only organization in golf. Ari, you can't tell me they weren't in control. They had PGA to learn, They were.

Aryon: 32:32

I'm going to say this too. This is what I was really happy with. There's a kudos to Jay Monahan in the sense that he he should have done it quicker. He should have done this. No, you should have evolved the game. That's what you had to do was evolve the game. The thing is but evolving the game when you have He did what every corporate big time CEO did.

Jordan: 32:54

If you can't evolve the game, you buy out the competition. Yes, he was going against unlimited funds, jordan.

Aryon: 33:01

He was going against unlimited funds and people were leaving and more were going to leave. eventually, the product, the PGA product, was getting weaker and weaker and weaker.

Jordan: 33:12

Under his tenure. Under his tenure.

Aryon: 33:16

So he had to do what he had to do, because now, now, now he controls live, live is, live is a brand under this umbrella. He did not merge with live. Okay, i mean, i can speak to. These companies are under the same, but there's there's no loyalty.

David: 33:37

What have we said? What is the wrong thing?

Jordan: 33:39

All you had to do was evolve the game and play your, pay your players more guys. This has been on the table for 20 years with Greg Norman and Phil Mickelson. This has been on the table. And then, yes, because you under you can shake your head.

David: 33:55

So you're saying so you're snow, but what you're saying is that Jay Monahan did a bad job and got them in this position.

Jordan: 33:59

But that doesn't say that Yes, okay, if you don't evolve.

David: 34:03

He's making a major move to try to fix that.

Jordan: 34:06

Yes.

David: 34:07

I'm going. We're not going to know the answer to that question, but I'm saying that he did make a major play to try to reverse course and put the PGA as a whole and their players in a better position. The question that we need to be arguing is whether that move is putting them in a better position or not.

Jordan: 34:27

You just use the word you. You just use the word fix. You just said he made an error and he's trying to fix the error.

Aryon: 34:34

The error. How long has Jay Monahan been?

Jordan: 34:36

the commissioner Don't know the answer to that. He didn't really care because he also lost plenty, of plenty of things along the route here.

Aryon: 34:46

So so what I'm saying is I'm not saying the guy's been the best commissioner in the world his entire tenure, i'm saying as it stands right now. Nobody three years ago thought live was going to become what it became. Nobody incorrect, because the rumors were out there. If you thought, but but but but if they, if they did, i promise you, if they really knew this would have been, this would have been handled differently from the beginning. No, i mean, people can assume, people can guess, but nobody. People still thought it was a joke, even when certain players signed. And it leads to another point that I want to talk about, about the players who are going to end up benefiting from this and who got the major paychecks and now we're going to be able to come back.

Aryon: 35:24

It shows sometimes in life you got to take risks. That risk can sometimes not pay out. It sometimes can pay out. Nobody really knows, and that's a whole different situation. But nobody could say for certain. Nobody knew how long this live stream was going to go. The guy could have pulled the plug on it a year into it, like nobody truly knew. Greg Norman, for all the things that he does poorly, did help bring live to a point where it was becoming a major problem for the PGA tour. And, yes, well, jay Monaghan did not handle every step in this process the correct way. As the situation stands right now, this is what he had to do to preserve the PGA tour, or to at least not let it drag out as long, like unnecessarily long, because things were separating Brooks Kepke winning Live players owning two out of the four majors is a problem.

David: 36:17

Hold on Back up. We've only had two majors. They won one of two.

Aryon: 36:20

They won one of two. Yes, i'm just saying that. My whole point on Jay Monaghan, general, is he did not handle each step of the process correctly. I will give you that. But in the situation right now, this went on too long. This should have been done six months ago. Okay, i thought it was going to drag on for another year. Truthfully, i didn't think he was going to cave this quickly. But this is the right play. Now he controls the funds, this unlimited piggy bank of money that's going to inevitably grow.

Aryon: 36:48

The game of golf And I do think Greg Norman does deserve a little bit of credit because he did help build live into an entity that was worth merging with the PGA tour or under the same umbrella money. But this is what Jay Monaghan had to do. Do you not think that over the last week or two, however long he's been pondering this, he wasn't thinking, like you know, this is going to. There's no way I'm going to look good coming out of this, like, of course And, yes, money is obviously a determining factor, but people don't like to look bad, i don't care who. You are Right. So this is obviously a major decision that he had to make. Money was definitely a motivating factor, but there are other things to come and play. If he didn't do this, if he didn't do this and more players left, it would just. It's not good. Live was just gaining too much momentum, in my opinion, and they had to cut off the head now, and they did. Now, they control everything. They control the money.

Jordan: 37:45

They can't live. Live wasn't gaining momentum. Their viewership was down.

David: 37:49

That's a thing I like. It wasn't a problem.

Aryon: 37:52

No but they're weakening the PGA tour is the problem. They were. It doesn't matter if they're getting bigger or if the PGA tour is getting smaller. The gap is getting closer regardless. Every player they take from the PGA tour shrinks that which still brings them closer together.

David: 38:08

I don't agree. I don't agree with that. I think that I don't agree with that. I don't think that the live was winning. I mean, the PGA had their own issues, i mean, but that doesn't mean that live was winning. I think that the biggest problem was that you had court battles that were getting drawn out That was going to definitely yes, okay, that would harm the PGA more than live, because live had deeper pockets due to the Saudis. I mean, i think a lot of what went down the last year, the fact that the ratings were down for both enterprises. The ratings were down for everything outside of the masters, and so I mean, and one of the Hammer Voice Tournament, one of them was like a 20 year low or something in terms of viewership.

David: 38:52

So it's like, okay, the PGA is not doing great, lives really not doing great in terms of any key metrics that you can measure outside of having an almost bottomless pit of money. I mean to me and this is where I do tend to agree with Aron is I go? that's why I'm like, if Jay Monahan's sitting there going, hey, i'm about to be defeated, i'm about to lose my job, i have to do something to save this. He could have pulled off the One of the biggest cues we'll see in our lifetime. With an organization of this size and this much forward facing people. In terms of just the TV deals, everything else, i'm like he literally just He destroyed live in one fell swoop. Whatever they are, the PGA effectively controls and owns now almost I can't say owns, but certainly controls.

David: 39:45

The Saudis realized the brand that is the PGA Tour around the world And the DP Tour in Europe has at least They watch it, they like it. It's survived with the PGA Tour and they certainly aren't really competing head to head like Liv was. Now the Saudis have a better partner. The PGA has the funds for however long they need them, let's be honest. So I have some misgivings about the fact that we are just jumping in bed to the Saudis.

David: 40:24

I think there's some That's a little sticky. That certainly could be interesting, but I think what he did actually completely undermines Liv and is a win for the, at least for Jay Monahan and the PGA Tour In terms of the organization. You are exactly right that it's supposed to be a player on organization, but what's the point of Jay Monahan other than to grow the pool of money and the opportunity for the players as well as for the sponsors He's got a responsibility to them too and to be able to make the Tour money, even though it's a 501C6. And he may have just done all of that while he was on the verge of potentially not even having a job If the performance continued to suffer the way it was.

Jordan: 41:14

Yeah, i think I'd prefer he didn't have a job. if I'm being real, i mean, that's fair.

David: 41:18

He's a pretty terrible creation.

Jordan: 41:20

Yeah, i really. I don't give Liv too much credit. I think their product was terrible. I think this is the best of both worlds for both companies like TwoUnite. Every report seems to indicate that neither company one of their books opened, which will leave that for what it is. But I think would you guys agree or disagree that in the long term, this was just the Saudis buying their way into American professional sports. Is that really all that it was? Would you guys agree with that? I would agree with that.

Aryon: 42:01

I will agree with that. But, jordan, let me ask you this If you don't want to give Liv any credit, why are PGA Tours ratings down?

Jordan: 42:10

Tiger Woods not being in the picture is a big reason why There is no Star Factor, which is why they're having trouble getting sponsors, which is why they're having trouble keeping players on their tour, because if the Tiger Effect isn't there, you don't have individual Star Power anymore. You can say Jordan's feet is wildly entertaining to watch. He's not Tiger And I'm sorry, but they do miss that to a huge, huge degree, because if Tiger showed up at any random tournament, those ratings would skyrocket up, no matter how much he did, and so would ticket sales.

Aryon: 42:48

Fair enough, But you're telling me that Liv taking what stars were left. Why was I mean? obviously, majors are going to get higher ratings because they're majors, but everybody playing together is leading to that. I promise you the ratings were better because Liv players played as well. They would have been higher than an average PGA Tour event regardless. But you're right, Star Power is difficult and Liv was picking off what stars like. Not all of them, but a lot of the stars that were there, especially some of the more recognizable names for the older generation of golfers.

David: 43:30

To prove Jordan's point about Tiger Woods, there's a couple of things On the parody in golf. All these guys are so good Like right now we may have some of the most collective best talent we've ever seen, which is why we're seeing one guy win a tournament, then another guy, then another guy. We're seeing some similarities within the top 25 and certainly within the top 10. Got a shout out to Scotty Schaeffler there. But you've got so many good players. The problem is you don't have a great one, And that's where Tiger Woods comes in. What were the biggest events that happened in the golf world in the last 20 years? What did they surround? What were they? It was Tiger Woods.

David: 44:11

Tiger Woods gets in a car crash in California. Tiger Woods gets hit over the head by his wife. Like everything had to do with Tiger Woods. Before that, he was just winning, winning, winning. Everyone loved it. They were paying attention. He drove the entire ratings of the tour, though Mickelson helped a little bit, but it was Tiger. He gets hit over the head. It's news for like a month And then his whole personal life is all over the tabloids, which he never wanted, but he hung around there. He comes back. People love to come back because he seemed contrite and he seemed to work hard to earn people's trust back. Then he gets hurt. Go down this path further and further and further. The major events in golf for the last 20 years has been Tiger with his infidelity, and Tiger when he almost died in that car crash.

Zach: 44:58

Hey, we're going to take a quick break for you guys, just to give you guys a little bit of a breather. This is a fantastic discussion, by the way, but if you guys are enjoying the pod, please give it a share, give it a rating. We're trying to boost our ratings right now for Apple, for Spotify, for all the other different platforms and everything that you guys do for us. It means genuinely means the world, so cannot thank you guys enough. Jordan, do we want to give what's coming up this next week? I want to be quite honest with you.

Jordan: 45:27

It's going to be before the podcast, but I don't even remember that Fantastic, I got you All right, cool. Let's get back into the discussion though Do you guys have any issue with where the money is coming from?

David: 45:44

I don't love it. I mean there's two sides of me thinking about it. One is the emotional side and the fact that I, you know, i do think it's pretty sketch that the stuff that they do, granted, how many products do we buy from China? And yet they continue to have mass genocide and pollute and all these other things. We buy stuff from India and they literally still have a caste system in existence. So I mean, i see both sides of it. I don't love the fact that Saudi's in bed with the major American media company, for lack of a better way to define them.

Jordan: 46:22

Okay.

Zach: 46:23

Well, and also I will say this they're trying to get into American football. I don't know if you guys saw that report as well.

David: 46:28

So that's cool And they're in the Premier League now, right?

Jordan: 46:34

They are, yep, they are.

Zach: 46:35

Yeah, yeah, i don't know where I'm going with this. Anyway, sorry.

Jordan: 46:40

Sorry, I'm not about you.

Aryon: 46:42

Well, i'm saying you guys, this is not the first time that the US has done business with Saudi Arabia, it's not the 10th time, it's not the 100th time, it's the most publicized time. I'd say probably, maybe not, maybe. Just because we're golf fans, we think that it is, but we do. The United States has so much business with Saudi Arabia and all these other countries and nobody says boo and look, i mean look around at oil, different things like that. And it's just like why, all of a sudden, now are we going to make a big deal out of this? It just doesn't make sense. So like, do I love it? No, i mean there's. I love buying anything American made whenever I can. But do I think this is different than 95 percent of everything else? that the country? No, yeah.

Jordan: 47:39

Was it a mistake for Monaghan to paint the picture that it was a bigger deal than it was? If we're going off of, that should.

Aryon: 47:47

Yeah, again, jay Monaghan did what he had to do. When you're going up against the competitor, especially the variables Liv was a very, a very unknown competitor because it doesn't run like a typical business runs, you know it doesn't behave like a typical business behaves. It can endure much greater losses than a, than a startup can endure. So ultimately now he has done the right thing in Merchant. Now he just has to make it right for for the players to hopefully gain their trust back. I don't disagree with your say what you're, with what you're saying, jordan, about gaining the the players trust. But you'll be surprised how quickly people forget things. And I'll use Tiger Woods as an example. I promise you, when all that stuff came out about what he did to his wife, there were a lot of fans that turned their back on him for a time. And now, as you guys make clear like he's the number one draw in every tournament and people seem to like I never hear about that ever anymore.

David: 48:53

We love a comeback story, right Yeah, like so.

Aryon: 48:58

So I don't, you know, i think, if, if Tiger Woods can gain the trust back of his, of his fan, you know, i mean, i don't I, in 10 years, if Jay Monahan is still in the position that he's in, i don't, i don't think he may be looked at as a hero if this truly grows the game of golf and if it truly, especially if he's there in 10 years.

David: 49:17

If he's there in 10 years, he's won.

Jordan: 49:20

Oh yeah, he was right.

David: 49:21

Two years He's probably won, but I mean like he's right, Like he's correct in what he did in turn. You know, like obviously it worked. I shouldn't say correct, It worked. If he's there in 10 years, If he's there in two years, then there's got to be some valid reason he's still there. I think he played it kind of poorly. I think he played too much, too much into the emotional card the last couple of years as opposed to being like OK, great, we've got a competitor, Wonderful. You know why don't you guys watch them and let me know what you think? Look at our guys. They're the best in the world, You know yeah, i 100% agree.

Aryon: 49:58

But he was in a corner and he was scared and he and he was like shoot, what kind of money are they throwing at these people? and it was an unknown enemy. But, david, you're 100% correct. If he would have just kind of Didn't give it yet by getting gave them so much publicity?

David: 50:12

Mm-hmm, he gave them so much publicity and that's why you have Greg Norm I mean Greg Normson fighting for this, for what like 30 years practically. Phil Mickelson you know It's talked about wanting to change things up. They get together. You get to kind of polarizing people within the golf goonie. Both, like you said, with big heads, are on, both that, you know, can really kind of go out and play the PR game, and so how do you kind of combat that? by downplaying it, by making it seem trivial. You know, if you are the person in control, if you're the PJ Tour and you're in control of the golfing world by and large, live. Okay, good for them, good luck. Oh, they want to take our players. They can have them.

Jordan: 50:56

Zach, i want to get you in here real quick. You didn't know him. I do, i do. I'm surprised you didn't attend today, wearing some type of live gear or something like that. So, in through all this, can I get your emotions of? are you happy, are you sad? Are you sad that you can't watch live after 2023? What are you feeling over there, man?

Zach: 51:22

Look, i haven't said much this podcast, because the discussion that you guys have is really good, right.

Zach: 51:27

Obviously, you guys know what it's, what's coming from this, and you guys have better insight than I could give. That's the reason why I've kind of let you guys kind of take over on this, on this discussion, and I've been trying to picture this as somebody that had just started watching golf, right, and then live gave the opportunity to kind of shake things up the way that you play golf, the ability to wear shorts and everything like that, and so I'm just The only thing I'm questioning is that are they going to take anything that live did in regards to how open and free it was, into this new league, or is it going strictly back to the PGA tour? That's what I'm wondering as the average golfer who was, just, like you know, just trying to just watch some golf and I think what lived in some of it was really really cool, and That's my question. That, and that's an open-ended question. I have no idea and I don't know if anybody knows that answer yet, but that's just what I've been thinking about.

David: 52:24

I think you got some insight today.

David: 52:25

Yeah, they will go ahead, David, i was just gonna say I mean, i know Rory was basically when he was being asked about live. He kind of talked about the little little details that he's been told and It was essentially along the lines of he really feels that live will go away. He doesn't want to see a, he hates them. That was literally in of itself, literally said that.

David: 52:49

But in terms of the team aspect of live more Specifically is where they got into it and and certainly the gentleman who I cannot remember his name to say my life that is in charge of the, the Saudi PIF, yasser Yasser, thank you. Anyway, yasser apparently is a big fan of team golf events and Rory clearly is a fan of more traditional Golfing venues and events. And if it's a team one, then he's talking mostly about the Ryder Cup and the President's Cup. Right, mm-hmm, was the President's Cup, yeah, yeah anyway, versus kind of the Team aspect that live went with Over the course of a season. So I think there's gonna be some kind of hybrid, but I do think that in general, liv's not gonna ultimately Go down as really adding much to the overall landscape of professional golf. That's whack.

Zach: 53:45

I hate that. That's so dumb to me.

Aryon: 53:49

I don't want all my the players to start wearing shorts every week. You know, maybe an event here or there, but I don't want it all the time. I I don't want a bunch of loud music playing all the time. I don't want, you know, golf a lot of people like golf because of the, the relaxation that it brings, the, the, the therapy that it brings, and And by playing music the whole time and and making it more like a hockey game, it's not going to give people that satisfaction if that's what they're looking for.

Jordan: 54:22

Yeah, take that, Zach. It's not gonna give any of us satisfaction bro.

Zach: 54:27

I Got a lot of satisfaction, but that's just me. Okay, here's my final question. Okay, i think this is a good way to round it out, unless you guys have anything else to say. As an average golfer, what can you take with all of this information? Right, for somebody like me? I've only been paying attention and watching golf for the last year. What does this mean for the future of golf? For a final concluding statement Is this a good thing? Is this a bad thing? What should I expect leaving this podcast?

Jordan: 55:01

Cool. I Think you can expect a lot more announcements coming up within a few weeks. Is it good for the future of golf? like I think Rory said it best in his press conference today. Like Saudi Arabia clearly wanted to spend a lot of money in the game of golf, now, with the partnership with the PGA tour, maybe they can spend that money and Allocate it properly, as opposed to what it was used to do before, which was essentially steal people from their tour.

David: 55:32

Yeah, i agree, i agree, i, i want this to be good for golf, because I am tired of live and Tend to agree with most everything Rory has kind of stated throughout this whole thing, but I wanted to be good. The biggest question I have, and the one thing that really kind of leaves me uneasy, despite me kind of defending Jay monahan and his decisions and his, his play in this, is just, you know, when you become the self-appointed CEO of for-profit business after being employed by a not-for-profit Company, even though you're getting paid handsomely, what, what kind of money is in it for him?

Jordan: 56:19

Sure valid question.

David: 56:21

I just that leaves me a little bit uneasy. I think it's Look, man, i'm a capitalist. I've no problem with you know, going out earning something. I just feel like Him being the CEO is the part that I'm having the hardest time with, because it certainly is gonna line his pockets.

Jordan: 56:39

Agreed agreed.

David: 56:41

Yeah, okay, i want it to be a good thing. I just that that that's the one thing that kind of leaves me uneasy about this. I think strategically it does make a lot of sense based on what was happening and just the fact that it did seem like There was maybe some kind of some some loose ground under the PGA. But he may have solidified that will certainly know. I want to say yes, i just can't quite commit.

Zach: 57:04

Yeah, well, and that's and that's the biggest thing is that you know We're recording this a day after the news dropped. Obviously, like Jordan said just earlier, there's gonna be a lot of stuff that comes out right over the next, the next year, right, there's gonna be a lot of new announcements about what's gonna go on with this brand new league. So when those announcements happen, we will give you the information on this podcast. But I've got nothing else. Jordan, david, do you guys have anything else?

Jordan: 57:32

No, let's hope the game of golf who goes in the right direction, that's yeah, it's a great way for Greg Norman. In the words of the Mandalorian. This is the way this is the way.

Zach: 57:44

This is the way. Well, thank you guys. Jordan, david, ariane. Thank you guys so much for being on the pod with me. If you guys are still here, if you guys are still listening, thank you. Thank you so much. Leave us a review. Let's try and get those ratings up and Keep trying to push this thing to where we really really hope it ends and where we want it to be. So, thank you guys so much for listening. We will catch you guys in the next podcast. You.